The Quiet Warrior Podcast with Serena Low

67. Perfectionism, The Athlete Mindset, and How to Unlock Your Quiet Power with Lisa Carpenter

• Serena Low, Introvert Coach for Quiet Achievers and Quiet Warriors

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In this episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, Lisa Carpenter – a master coach, professional athlete, hypnotist, and host of The Full Frontal Living Podcast – shares her transformative journey of overcoming perfectionism, building resilience, and embracing authenticity in leadership and life. With heartfelt honesty, Lisa explores how dismantling labels and self-imposed limitations can unlock greater potential and fulfillment.

Key Discussion Points:

  1. Athlete Mindset: Lisa’s journey as a professional athlete and how it taught her resilience, discipline, and the ability to embrace challenges both in the gym and in business.
  2. Working from Point B: The power of visualizing success as a done deal and aligning daily actions with that mindset.
  3. Redefining Perfectionism: How perfectionism is a coping mechanism and why embracing imperfection fosters growth and connection.
  4. Healing the Inner Child: Understanding self-compassion and reparenting as essential tools for personal healing.
  5. Challenging Labels: Why stepping beyond self-imposed identities, such as “introvert” or “athlete,” opens up new possibilities for growth.
  6. Full Frontal Living: The courage to strip away coping mechanisms and face life’s challenges authentically.

Mentioned Resources:

Actionable Takeaways:

  • Challenge Your Identity: Examine the labels you attach to yourself and explore how they may be limiting your growth.
  • Adopt the Athlete Mindset: Embrace discipline and non-negotiables to achieve your goals, whether in fitness, business, or personal life.
  • Practice Self-Compassion: Acknowledge your imperfections and approach yourself with kindness and curiosity.
  • Be Responsible for Your Energy: Recognize the energy you bring to a room and lead with intention and authenticity.

Follow-Up Actions:

  • Subscribe to Lisa’s podcast and explore her private podcast offerings.
  • Reflect on areas in your life where you might be clinging to perfectionism or labels.
  • Practice small steps to connect with others authentically, especially as a quieter or introverted person.

Connect with Serena:

Rate and review The Quiet Warrior Podcast: Apple Podcasts | Spotify.

  • Subscribe to The Visible Introvert newsletter for weekly tips.
  • Join me on LinkedIn where I share empowering ways to show up as an introvert in the workplace and as a business owner

This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Serena Loh. If you're used to hearing that introverts are shy, anxious, antisocial and lack good communication and leadership skills, then this podcast is for you. You're about to fall in love with the calm, introspective and profound person that you are. Discover what's fun, unique and powerful about being an introvert, and how to make the elegant transition from quiet achiever to quiet warrior in your life and work anytime you want, in more ways than you imagined possible. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast. Today I have with me Lisa Carpenter, who is a master coach, a board-certified hypnotist, an author, a speaker, a professional athlete and host of the Full Frontal Living podcast. Welcome, lisa.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me, Serena. I'm really looking forward to this conversation and serving your community powerfully.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much, Lisa. The first thing I'm really curious about is your journey as a professional athlete. I was following you for a little while in your bodybuilding journey. Looking at your photos. Tell me what makes you, what makes anyone decide to take on something so different from what they normally do, to decide to become a professional athlete, to do all that work you know, and that requires you, particularly in bodybuilding and taking part in competitions, to put yourself out there in a very different way.

Speaker 2:

That's a really great question and, to be honest, I think I've been an athlete my entire life. So I just turned 52 the other day and you know, when I started going to the gym was after I graduated high school and I was one of, like the token women in the gym. There were no other women in the gym back then. I was like an anomaly, anomaly. And now I mean it's so exciting for me to walk into any gym or any community center and there's such diversity in people who are lifting weights now and specifically women. You know, I see women in the squat rack now on the regular, whereas for a long time it was like the little pink two pound dumbbells and the. You know women were focused a lot on aerobic training. So women have really gotten into weight training over the years. So, but for me personally, I think I've always I've always been an athlete.

Speaker 2:

I grew up as a dancer and taking really good care of my physical body. I'm a very kinesthetic person. I love the challenge that came with weight training. I loved the, I loved how I could change my body. I loved how I could get really, really strong.

Speaker 2:

And just for your listeners, you know, because when people think of bodybuilding, they often think of people like, you know, arnold Schwarzenegger, or women who look like men. I do not look like a man. I could lift like crazy heavy weights and I'm never going to be shaped like that. I'm always going to be very feminine because I'm a natural athlete. I'm only five foot one on stage. I'm under a hundred pounds. So when we're talking bodybuilding like, I am miniature. I am miniature. So part of this is like breaking down the stigma around what bodybuilding actually is and you know how it relates to my business. And this kind of you know, athlete mindset is everything that I am capable of doing in the gym is 100% transferable in my business.

Speaker 2:

Because lifting weights if you are truly going for transformation in the gym, you're going to have to be pushing yourself hard. You're going to have to do things that you don't necessarily want to do. You're going to have to pick up the weights that maybe you don't think you're going to be able to move. Or, you know, do an exercise that you don't particularly love, but it's going to lead you towards the results that you want to get for yourself. So, you know, for a lot of years in my business, like I said, I've been, you know, weight training in the gym for years and years, and years, and it's always been something that I've come back to.

Speaker 2:

And when my first two boys were really young, that's when I started competing, and then the sport of bodybuilding and fitness. It is, in itself, a job, because when you are dialed in to get ready to go on stage, you have to be a hundred percent committed to that end goal. They're not going to push off the show If you're not ready. You have to be ready. So you've got to do the things that you don't necessarily want to do the cardio, the weight training, all the things that go with it. So I did that for quite a few years, had a lot of success in it. Then my kids were young. I wanted to start growing my business. So I kind of retired from the sport and went all in on my business.

Speaker 2:

But what happened for me in 20, gosh, I think in 2018, I decided, after years of being in my business and my business taking, like all my time, all my energy, all my effort, one of my coaches suggested that. You know I put my focus back on the sport that I loved. So, even though I was still training in the gym. There's a difference between training versus being a competitive athlete and training. So I went back to being a competitive athlete and what was truly fascinating for me was again that that alignment of what was happening in the gym were direct lessons as to what I could be doing in my business. Sit down at my desk and I'd be like am I actually showing up the same way in my business that I am in the gym? Am I willing to do hard things there, but what things am I avoiding in my business? So it really changed how I approached growing my business once I got back into being a competitive athlete.

Speaker 2:

So and as I've said to you before, we went live, in my opinion, most entrepreneurs, ceos, they are actually athletes. They may not see it that way, and the reason that I say that is in order to be a competitive athlete or a pro athlete or even a weekend warrior, it does come with a certain level of commitment to the outcomes that you want to create. You have to take great care of yourself. Rest needs to be a priority. So it's great what I do in the gym, but that's only effective if I'm making sure that I'm resting when I'm not training and that I'm fueling my body properly, that I'm getting in the right nutrition, that I'm staying hydrated, that I'm taking divine care of myself, and then I'm really treating my body with a lot of love and reverence and as entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2:

Entrepreneurs are often working long hours, they're pushing themselves really hard, but then they're treating their physical wellbeing like an afterthought and then they're wondering why they can't perform their best as they're growing their business. So they're showing up to lead other people and, uh, you know, as as an athlete and as a professional athlete, I need to be able to perform at my best every single time I go into the gym. It doesn't mean that I'm always going to right, but that is the goal that I come in and I'm able to perform my best. That relies on a lot of factors outside of the gym, and the same is true for all entrepreneurs and CEOs. How you're going to show up and perform and lead your team and lead your business and create the results that you want are going to be correlated with how well you take care of yourself, because if you burn yourself into the ground, you're not going to be able to show up for your business. You're just not going to get the same results. So this is why, you know, I really am passionate about allowing people to explore their perspective of an athlete.

Speaker 2:

You know, the other thing that athletes do is we're always visualizing our success. You know, I walked out on that stage a million times in my mind before I ever walked out on the stage in real life, and the same is true in our businesses. It's casting the spells that we want to create for the future. Are we willing to spend time in visualization, in holding on to those dreams? You know we talk a lot about working from point B versus working to point B, right?

Speaker 2:

So if I'm already on the stage, if I'm standing up there and I'm winning my pro status, how do I need to show up today in order to make that happen? That's a completely different mindset than I hope I get to that goal over there. It's the difference between, like that goal is actually a done deal. What do I need to do today to ensure that? Versus like kind of hoping, like holding that vision out there but not really being committed to the outcome you want. That's the way I look at it. So that was a lot in that answer for you about athlete and athlete mindset, but I think that so many people would benefit from seeing themselves through that lens, especially if they are in leadership roles.

Speaker 1:

That was a lot in an answer and that's going to lead to a lot of questions.

Speaker 1:

So I can imagine one of the questions people would have would be what does working from point B mean? Because you know, in our conversation we might understand the difference between working to point B and working from point B, but for somebody who is listening to this and new to these kinds of concepts and hearing this for the first time, they might be a bit puzzled as to what do you mean? Because we always think point B is something out there. It's not me yet, it's future me. So there is still a gap, there is still a distance that I have to travel. I have to do things to get towards point B and each day I take these micro steps or maybe some massive action and eventually I get to point B. But what you just said there was you're working from point B and point B is already a done deal. How does one get into that kind of a mindset?

Speaker 2:

It's. You know, a large part of it, as I said, is understanding that point B has already happened, is understanding that point B has already happened. So it's acting as if if I was already in this position, if I already had the success, if I've, what does my life look like? I'm already there and then looking at what are the decisions that I made in order to get me there. So you know, for me to stand up on stage stage, you know, in a lineup of other professional athletes, I have to believe that I can hold my own against those other professional athletes. I have to see myself in that lineup with those other women looking absolutely fabulous and, you know, standing in my power there, and that's a big part of it.

Speaker 2:

So, working from point B, it's like if it's already done. What are the decisions that you're going to make today that support that? So you know, if I'm on stage, standing there with those other pro women, I am not going to negotiate with myself about the things that I need to do in my day my cardio, my weight training, whatever it may be, the food that I need to eat and pack. I'm not going to negotiate on those things, because to have that identity of that person in that vision. These are the things that have to happen today, and I think, when we're trying to work towards a goal versus working from the goal we often negotiate with ourselves, we find reasons, excuses, fears, whereas if you're already there in your mind, you're going to show up in a very different mindset. So I think that that's the biggest difference for me. It just it helps to dictate the commitment and the non-negotiables that have to happen in order to create the outcome that I've already seen in my mind.

Speaker 1:

That makes a lot of sense. You're not going to negotiate with yourself, so you don't make excuses and you don't let your fears dictate your actions. So those things are immovable. Those are your steadfast, your anchors, the things that you need to do. The other question I would have is you said something about casting the spells we want for the future, and that reminds me of how easily, as children, we would cast spells. We read about what magicians can do, what fairies can do, and we believed it can do what fairies can do and we believed it. So why is it, as an adult, it is so hard to believe that we can succeed, we can do this spectacular thing, this pull up this project, become this amazing, successful entrepreneur, the CEO, the professional at work. Why is it such a hard thing for an adult to cast those same spells?

Speaker 2:

Isn't it interesting that something that's celebrated when we're children, right, that ability to be in our imagination and live in awe and wonder but as we get older we're told to grow up and show up and be realistic, and that we don't get to have those dreams anymore? And what's happening really is other people are projecting their limitations onto us, because the truth is, you can pretty much have anything you want if you're willing to put in the time, the effort, the energy, sometimes the financial resources, and hold on to that vision. I don't know if you saw this SpaceX with Elon Musk like threading the needle of that rocket coming back down to Earth. I don't know if anybody has watched this, but I mean it is absolutely mind blowing that they send this rocket up and then they bring it down and they literally land it in what looks like a pinhole. And that happened because Elon Musk whether you like him or hate him doesn't really matter, it's irrelevant was willing to hold on to his vision and he was cast out by all the American astronauts like you can't, you know you're breaking tradition but he held on to the vision of what he saw and what he wanted as an innovator and he was willing to stay in that place of wild curiosity and wonder.

Speaker 2:

And what if this is possible? And it takes a lot of courage to stand in that energy when most of the world is coming at you with their limitations. And you should work your nine to five and you should play it safe. And do you think you're being smart about this? And you went to school for this. Why would you want to give this up to do this thing? But the most successful people I know are the ones who had the courage to say I'm going to be misunderstood, and that's okay, because my visions and my dreams are so important to me. And you know, even if they don't hit that specific goal they're going for. Even if they don't hit that specific goal they're going for. You're still going to learn a lot along the journey, right? My first attempt at my pro show. I didn't even place, but I still felt like a winner being up on that stage, right, it still expanded me into what else is possible.

Speaker 2:

So I would rather live with the dreamers and the delusional thinkers who know what's possible, because it truly is the only things.

Speaker 2:

We're really limited is by our mind and just look at your life and see the things that you've already created, because everything around you in some way shape or form, you've created that from your thoughts, from your beliefs, like your life is a reflection of what you believe on the inside, and the more you continue to expand into what's possible for you I mean, I don't know about you, but I can find lists in my journals of things that I wanted to create in this world that I'm like, wow, that happened.

Speaker 2:

They didn't always happen in the way that I would have requested that they happen, but you know, from the car I drive to the house that I live in, there's so many things that I would have requested that they happen. But you know, from the car I drive to the house that I live in, there's so many things that I've created in my world that was once this like beyond my wildest dreams. So and I'm not, you know, I'm not some special unicorn, I didn't get given an extra gift that nobody else got I have just chosen to hold on to my dreams tighter than to the limitations that are being, you know, trying to be sold to me by other people who are caught in their own limitations.

Speaker 1:

What I'm hearing is it's not a black and white thing, you don't have to be this or that. It's more what you just said there Hold on tighter to your dreams than your limitations, so acknowledging that you still have limitations, that sometimes that inner critic is going to tell you you can't do this. Is that a good idea? This is not safe at all, and so on. But then you are letting something else be louder and something else prevail.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think something that people often believe is that you have to be rid of fear and doubt to take the next step, and never once have I done anything where fear and doubt weren't standing steadfast at my side. I've just learned to kind of embrace them and be with them, versus allowing them to hold me back. Now there are some things, definitely, that I can look back on and say, wow, that took me a long time to move past that fear and it'll take as long as it. It'll take as long as it takes, but a big part of it is acknowledging that, oh, fear and doubt are part of this game that I'm playing and they're here because they're trying to protect me.

Speaker 2:

Right, they're just parts of me that want to make sure that I'm safe, that want to make sure that I'm loved, that want to make sure that I'm going to belong in this world. They are trying to do their job. But the wiser part of me, right, that inner knowing part of me, has to be able to kind of corral them. Wrap, you know, wrap my arms around fear and doubt and say like we're going to be OK regardless of what happens on the other side of this win or lose, succeed or fail, I don't know. I kind of look at everything as a win. But we're going to be OK, and that's a big part of emotional resilience is knowing that, however things turn out, you are going to be okay.

Speaker 1:

That takes an enormous amount of self-trust Trust in life, trust in the process, trust in the magic that, even when we can't see, we still know that it's going to be okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I would challenge any of your listeners to ask themselves like do they have any evidence that they can't trust themselves? Right? So when we're looking at at self-trust, we can get into the wheat Like I don't know if I can trust myself. Well, do you know that you can't? Do you get out of bed every morning? Do you feed yourself every day? Do you brush your teeth every day? Are you raising children? Because if you are raising children, the amount of self-trust that takes, because that doesn't come with a manual. So when you actually set back and ask yourself that question from a different perspective, you will often find that you have more than enough evidence that you can always trust yourself and that you've always had your own back. And it's a story that we want to tell ourselves that we can't trust ourselves. And listen, things happen in life that will make that you know self-confidence and that self-trust be wobbly. I've definitely experienced them. But I ultimately still come back to the place of Lisa. Are you still standing? If you're still standing, then there really is no evidence that you can't not trust yourself. So how about we just put one foot in front of the other, right?

Speaker 2:

Like you know, I talk a lot about these parts. You know fear and doubt, but we also have this like part of us that we can pull forward. That is that steadfast parental figure. And maybe you didn't have this growing up in your life I know a lot of us didn't. But can we cultivate that inner parent that can say like I'm here for you, I'm never going to leave your side, I've got you Right? You can kind of like it can link arms with the fear and the doubt. Pretty soon you'll have like 15 characters like that movie inside out, right, all the characters. But we can cultivate these pieces of ourselves, these parts of ourselves that will help us move forward.

Speaker 1:

And you know, learning how to parent, learning how to parent yourself, is a big part of self-trust, I love that, because I'm on a similar journey, with that parenting and also healing of the inner child and being all the things that we needed when we were that age, that little age when we were defenseless, powerless, we didn't have the words, the vocabulary, the ability to stand up for ourselves, and perhaps it is that we are projecting out of that same five-year-olds fears and insecurities, and that's the part that's shouting really loudly. So I love what you said, that about making fear and doubt recognizing that's the part that's shouting really loudly. So I love what you said, that about making fear and doubt recognizing that they are part of the game, part of your journey, not pushing them away, not trying to use those fierce, aggressive kind of language, like you know overcome, eliminate as though they are the enemy.

Speaker 1:

They are not the enemy and like you said they, they are here to keep us safe, so they actually have a protective function. They actually are on our side.

Speaker 2:

They are and you know I think so many of us would be served to step back when we talk about you know, because inner child healing has become quite popular and I think it's important to talk about it a little bit because you know so many of the men and women I work with and literally I can go out into the world and look at anybody. We are all like children walking around in adult bodies. We are all wounded children walking around in adult bodies and quite often the it's the five-year-old or the eight-year-old part of us that is making decisions in our lives. Yet you would never turn to your eight-year-old and say you know, should we go play in traffic today, like you would never hand over big life decisions to your eight-year-old. Yet we're allowing that inner eight-year-old or five-year-old to play that role in our life without even recognizing it. And for many of us, you know, I think it's a generational thing. With every generation I think we're getting better as parents, even though, you know, our kids are still going to have stuff they need to work out.

Speaker 2:

So many of us didn't get what we needed from our parents and one of the things that was said to me by, you know, one of my coaches was, you know, lisa, trauma and I'm talking like little t trauma isn't necessarily about things that happen to us, but it's about things that we didn't receive as children. We didn't receive that feeling of safety or our love or belonging. We will start to develop coping mechanisms and that's what kind of, you know, guide us through our life. So those coping mechanisms are based on that child who took in the information without any discernment of knowing what was right or wrong, just based on what was happening. And now that's the part that's leading us around as adults. So, learning how to parent those parts of us, learning how to be better, question askers of like where's this coming from? Or if I didn't feel this way, what kind of decision would I make? And is this fear, is this adult, me believing that this is scary? Or is this the child in me that is fearful? Something is going to happen? And if it's more the child part of me, how can I parent that part of me? How can I parent that fear and doubt and continue to move forward? I mean, I make it sound simple, but it's not.

Speaker 2:

It's complicated, it's messy, it's layered, it involves a tremendous amount of self-compassion, which so many of us really struggle with being kind and compassionate to ourselves. We're super good at that towards other people, but we really struggle at turning that inside as well. And you know, just circling back to the athlete, you have to be compassionate with yourself as an athlete because you have to know when to stop, you have to know when to rest, you have to know when you're injured and act accordingly right, so continuing to push yourself will completely take you out of the game. So finding that balance of compassion and being that wise parent, that's like. You've got this, you can go do this thing. Both can exist at the same time.

Speaker 1:

What if someone were to say that, because they didn't receive that kind of nurturing, they have no clue how to be that kind of a parent to themselves? Where would they start?

Speaker 2:

I love that because this is part of what I've been having to learn around my own journey as a parent, learn around my own journey as a parent. So I've been very open that I really have struggled struggled as a parent when my kids were younger I much prefer older children and it's because I'm realizing that there were certain things that weren't modeled to me. And that's not to throw my parents under the bus, I'm not blaming them. They were doing the best they could. I think my mom was like 23 when she had me and I'm like, oh my God, that's like a child, child having a child when I think about it. So you know, I've had to have a lot of conversations with coaches and colleagues that I trust I've had to look. So when something isn't modeled to you, it's having the courage to look at, look in other places where it is being modeled. Who do you know that shows that type of uh, parenting ability? Who do you know who's able to show up with more compassion? So surround yourself with people who are able to model the behaviors that you're wanting to learn. And this, this applies to everything you know.

Speaker 2:

As you probably know, I used to work from a place of a lot of lack and limitation. This was, you know, version Lisa, 20 years ago, and I started to have to ask myself well, how would a person who truly felt wealthy and abundant all the time, how would they show up? Because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be having a freak out every time they received a bill in the mail. So, again, coming back to that point B, right, who can I look at that is already embodying this kind of identity of wealth and abundance, and how would they make decisions? Right, it's no different than saying who do I know that embodies this like amazing ability to parent and lead their, their children, and then being able to model that, you know. So I, I channeled, like Richard Branson this was back in the day, you know his Island got devastated by a hurricane and he was like, okay, we just rebuild it. I was like, whoa, we just rebuild, because that's that's the identity he was working from. So, yeah, it's, it's. Who do you know that does model that? How can you be curious about how you can be showing up differently? What kind of identity do you want to start to step into? So, even with you know, I know you talk to a lot of quiet, more introverted people and I've got.

Speaker 2:

You know, I do believe in introversion and extroversion difference in terms of how we fill our buckets. But I also think that so many people use introversion as a reason to not put themselves out there and as an introvert myself, which means I need time alone to refill my bucket, but that doesn't mean I'm not capable capable of peopling. But I started to think well, I don't want to be an extrovert, but what? Who am I surrounded by? Who does have more of those extroverted qualities and how do they show up in the world? Can I have a little bit of that Like? Am I capable of having a little bit of that?

Speaker 2:

And it became this like, acting as if so, it didn't feel normal or natural, and some of the nurturing things that I'm practicing with my kids now don't necessarily feel normal or natural and I'm capable of change and transformation, I'm capable of new habits and new ways of being.

Speaker 2:

So you know, I would go to, you know these networking things and I would just be like, okay, I'm going to talk to like one person and be, be a hundred percent me and not be coward in the corner. So, again, I'm not interested in working the room, I don't want to become an extrovert, but how can I embody some of the things that I really admire and appreciate about people who are extroverted, right Like they put themselves out there? So, and same thing with my parenting. When I go away, how about just every day, I send my kids a message to say I'm thinking of you, because that feels very foreign for me. I'm happy to just like disconnect and be gone, but I'm learning like, oh, this is what it means to connect in a different way to your kids. So I've still got lots of lessons that I'm learning as well.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love the acknowledgement that this parenting thing is, in a sense, a marathon. It's a journey and it's as we are changing ourselves and evolving and growing. Our relationships also grow and our children are also receiving a different kind of role modeling that maybe we didn't have when we were growing up. But we're able to model differently Because, as you say, we go looking for those positive role models and we learn from them. And you said I'm capable of change and transformation. So therefore I'm not locked into my labels. I may be this, I may be that, and I acknowledge that I have these traits and these preferences in communication style, but it doesn't mean that I cannot also be flexible and learn to communicate differently if I'm in a different context.

Speaker 2:

It's beautiful. That's really like you're very, very good at gathering everything I said and then just putting it into this beautiful little nutshell. I love that. That's a real gift.

Speaker 1:

So we've talked about the athlete's mindset, we talked about leadership and about introverts. Talk to me about perfectionism. I imagine that, as an athlete and as professional athlete as well as a master coach and everything else that you do that element of perfectionism would be there.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think we need to talk about perfectionism for what it is, which is just another coping mechanism to hide the parts of you that don't feel like they're good enough. To hide the parts of you that don't feel like they're good enough. So if I'm perfect enough, if I do everything right, then I won't ever have to feel disappointed, let down, hurt. You know, you name your emotion but the whole idea of perfectionism is grounded in absolute control, like if I can make everything look and be a certain way, then I will be okay. But the problem with that is that you're never really okay, because how do you ever measure perfect? What's perfect enough? So, if we're talking about the sport of bodybuilding, I mean you line up 20 women that are literally flawless and then we're all judged against each other. It's completely subjective, based on what the judges are looking for. I could be what I consider the most perfect version of myself, but the whole sport of bodybuilding is the fact that you can constantly be changing your body. So perfect is this illusion that often people are chasing, because then, if they reach perfect, then again, then they'll feel good enough. But there is actually no measure of perfect. So it's like being, you know, as one of my mentors says, it's like being stuck in the round room trying to find a corner. There's no corner. There is no perfect. No corner, there is no perfect. So perfectionism in my own life, it used to be the thing that, um, you know, I didn't realize that I was using it as a coping mechanism and and, uh, I didn't even really know what it was. And I remember being in a therapy group learning about, uh, different process addictions, which perfectionism is a process addiction, right? So they're behavior addictions that are meant to numb out things we're feeling. And she'd given me this exercise. It was called the wall, and the exercise was to go home and to write out all the things that you thought were blocking you from connection with yourself and connection with others. I was like I got this. So I went to the store, I bought myself colored, you know, pencil, crayons. I had my sheet of paper and I spent all night putting blocks in my wall and then coloring them in to make them nice and pretty, and then coloring them in to make them nice and pretty, and then the next day we had to go back to therapy and we all had to open up our wall in front of us and show the class. And I was like I'm going to crush this. And I got crushed because I opened up my wall, thinking like I've nailed this. There's not a single brick on here. She's not going to catch me with anything that I don't already know about myself.

Speaker 2:

And I opened up my wall and she leaned over and she looked at it and she's like what do you guys notice about Lisa's wall? And I was like what do you mean? What do you notice about my wall? She's like oh, it's very pretty, isn't it? It's very perfect, isn't it? And I immediately got defensive and went into arguing which is a red flag for me because I know something's been triggered when I start to push back. And she circled my whole wall in red pen and wrote perfectionism and she nailed me. She nailed me right Because in my attempt to get it right, I was like well, if I am perfect, then I'm not going to feel this way. And she cut right through that and I've never forgotten it.

Speaker 2:

This was more than a decade ago and it stayed with me because I realized that I had a choice, that I was often using my appearance, how I presented myself, because I can look like a Barbie doll, like, hands down my little convertible, my blonde hair. I can look like a Barbie doll. It is my responsibility to not use my appearance or anything to block people from connecting with me or for me, connecting with myself. So I am always gonna be the first to walk up to somebody, even being an introvert, to introduce myself, because I know that people can often feel intimidated by me and that used to be by design, right, like if I look a certain way, people won't approach me and if they don't talk to me, then they'll never figure out that I'm so insecure.

Speaker 2:

You know my work. I can show you the first course that I built online and everything had to be just so with it. And now I look at the course and I'm like, oh my gosh, I look like a robot because I was trying so hard for it to be perfect and professional in the right fonts. I mean, I used to get caught up in fonts and colors and stuff that nobody cares about, and the freedom that I now have on the other side of no longer trying to be perfect is I can shoot video walking out of the gym with my hair on top of my head and no makeup on, I don't care, right, if you look at my Instagram feed, it is a hot mess and it is real, you know, it just doesn't matter.

Speaker 2:

So you know, perfectionism so many people get caught up in it and they don't even realize that they're caught in it. They don't even recognize that they don't have to live this way. Yeah, so there's just. You know, I know I said a lot in there, but it really is about not having to feel a certain way and a lot of times, for a lot of people, it's about avoiding judgment. Right, if they can look a certain way and be a certain way and things are a certain way, then other people won't judge them. And, as I shared in my wall, like I was still judged, I did everything perfectly and I was still judged. She nailed me. So there's my thoughts on perfectionism.

Speaker 1:

So you said perfectionism is an illusion, it's completely subjective. And that reminds me, because I've got a younger daughter going through the VCE right now, which is like the equivalent of the last year of high school. You have exams and then that determines whether you get into university, and it's measured not based on your results per se but as your results compared to everybody else's. And so I saw that parallel there that it doesn't matter actually how well or how badly you're doing. It also matters what other people are doing. So if everybody else is doing really badly, you come out looking really good, but if everybody else is much better than you are, then you come out maybe just above average.

Speaker 1:

So the whole thing is moving all the time, and so when we get too emotionally attached and, as you say, it's a coping mechanism which means then it might go back to where is this coming from? You know, maybe when I was 10, someone said really harsh, and I've internalized that. I've made it a story, I've made it part of my identity that I'm not good enough unless I do all these things. Therefore I have to be perfect and do all these things, and so if we can exercise self-compassion and also recognize and go back and hug that 10-year-old and reassure them, reparent them with a lot more kindness and grace and maybe an assurance of unconditional love that you know, regardless of whether you came in first in class or you know, you only got 90 and not 100, it's okay. It doesn't affect who you are.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's important to like start paying attention to where perfectionism is showing up for you. Is it in you know, you having to scour every detail, making sure there's not a single spelling mistake? Is it in you know? For me, I'd catch myself if I had to go do something, like I'd be brushing my hair for 20 minutes Nobody needs to brush their hair for 20 minutes, right? So I started to pick up on these things, right? Or if I was obsessing over a font or a PDF and I would sit back and ask myself, like Lisa, what is actually going on for you here? Because it's not about the font, it's not about the hair, it's not about any of this.

Speaker 2:

What part of you is not feeling good enough right now? What part of you is feeling insecure or scared? Part of you is feeling insecure or scared. So, instead of trying to put you know, cover it up with if I'm just perfect, I won't have to feel this it's actually having the courage to lean in and ask myself, like, what is really going on? Like, like you would notice with your children and say wait a minute. Like what's really going on for you here, Because I noticed these behaviors which are coming to the surface right now, which I know means that there's something more going on for you.

Speaker 2:

When we approach ourselves with more curiosity and compassion, that's when we find out, you know, we discover deeper things about ourselves and we're able to start to let some of these behaviors go or at least have them soften back. Because I think, you know, sometimes perfectionism can still show up for me and that that line between perfectionism and excellence, right redefining that, I do want to put out excellent work that's important to me, and really being curious about what is that difference for me, so that I don't get caught in, you know, hours of stuff that just doesn't matter at the end of the day, because I'm afraid of somebody, how somebody else is going to judge me for my work or whatever and you know how I've been learning about the extent of my perfectionism lately and that's because I'm going through perimenopause and it's affected my cognitive capacity quite significantly.

Speaker 1:

yeah, I understand that a lot and I've been that person that was always very careful with spelling, with grammar, with you, the way I write and all that and avoid misunderstandings and so on. And all of a sudden I'm seeing all these errors after I've clicked send it. Just, it was so hard to accept Right.

Speaker 2:

Because it's so.

Speaker 2:

It became so much of your identity that the details matter and you know I've also gone through some cognitive decline over the past couple of years for a variety of reasons and it's incredibly unsettling.

Speaker 2:

It's really hard when you can't find your thoughts or your words, especially for the job that I do.

Speaker 2:

Right, when I've got 1000s of people in front of me and I'm coaching whether it's one on one or a group of people in front of me and I'm coaching whether it's one-on-one or a group and I can't find the word or the memory that I want, that's impactful and I've had to let it like okay, this is going to be a little bit messier than it was before, but allowing myself to be the version of me today and not measure that versus the, you know, younger version of me, who maybe was a little bit sharper in some areas, I think I'm much wiser now. But yeah, it really bumps up against your identity when you start noticing things about yourself that you believed you were able to control in the past and then not making it mean anything about you like nobody really cares if there's a spelling mistake. Nobody really cares if there's a spelling mistake. Nobody really cares if you missed a word, but it's letting that go within yourself and having compassion for yourself around that.

Speaker 1:

Yes, hence your point about curiosity, and compassion is so important. I can get curious about where is this coming from. Oh, it's because of these changes that my body is going through at the moment. I acknowledge them, I accept that this is part of the process of aging, and I can also be compassionate with myself. And all right, today may be a day maybe not so much for heavy research. Let's see what else I feel like doing today. Maybe I need to do more drawing. Maybe I need to go out for a walk. That's right. I'd be okay with that. That's right.

Speaker 2:

And drawing. Maybe I need to go out for a walk, that's right. I'd be okay with that, that's right. And you know when things are happening to us. You know acceptance is a big part of it, but you also don't have to like something to accept it, and I think that that's a big part of you know aging as as women and everything in our life right it's, it's being willing to accept things as they are and also being compassionate around. You know what I don't have to like this, but the more I can accept this, the more peace I'm going to bring into my life. I promise you, serena, nobody's going to be at your funeral and be like well, you know what.

Speaker 2:

She sent 100 good emails, but those last five, man, they weren't very good. Like nobody cares, right, the stuff that we get attached to, that we give so much meaning to, nobody cares. On the coaching calls where I felt like, wow, that was what happened there, lisa, it'll be a call that somebody's like wow, that was an amazing coaching call and I'm sitting here on the other side of the screen going, wow, I really had a hard time trying to find my words there. So, again, right, like there is no measuring stick for what is perfect it's funny, it circles back around to that self-trust right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, having grown back is, in those moments, not abandoning yourself.

Speaker 1:

That's interesting. Tell me more about abandoning yourself.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's interesting Tell me more about abandoning yourself. Well, when we, when something happens like you send the email and it's got typos in it and you missed words you abandon yourself. When, all of a sudden, you pick up the stick and start beating yourself up oh you dummy, what are you thinking? What's wrong with you? Your brain must be broken now. That's, that's like abuse. And when we abuse ourselves, when we're critical of ourselves, what we in essence are doing is abandoning ourselves. We're abandoning that little child that is just looking for someone to say you know what. You're going to be okay, everything's fine, nothing bad happened, nobody died. There were typos in the email.

Speaker 2:

So I'm always looking now at places where I'm abandoning myself or where I've abandoned myself in the past. Right, because I was taught that being hard on myself was the way towards perfectionism, was the way towards excellence. But every time I beat myself up, I actually reinforce that story of I'm not good enough. Self up, I actually reinforce that story of I'm not good enough, and that's self abandonment, that's abuse. And when we can stop that, so again coming back to that love and compassion and parenting ourselves, that's when we really start to shine in the world. That's when you really start to realize what matters and what doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:

I want to circle back to something you said earlier about your wall. You said it's my responsibility to not let my wall keep people from connecting with me. My responsibility and it reminds me of another saying that you have responsibility for the energy you bring to the room. Might have been Oprah Winfrey. It's something I think about very consciously when I walk into a room as an introvert, as a quieter person who likes observing first before I talk, and I do take the initiative to introduce myself, and I'm also very conscious that it's the energy. I'm responsible for that and I can decide what kind. You know what level I'm going to project today and, like you, I also set myself something that's really achievable. So I'm not going to work the room and I'm going to keep repeating my you know 30 second pitch. I just don't feel that's the way to connect for me. But I love going up to one person and having a really great conversation and just displaying a lot of curiosity, asking a lot of questions and just focusing on that one person.

Speaker 2:

I love that so much. That's what I do as well. And just a tip to all the introverts listening the best people are on the outside of the room because the extroverts are all in the center of the room trying to talk over each other. So all you need to do is look for the people who are lingering by the water station or the back walls, who look a little bit like awkward and uncomfortable. And that's that energy part, right Like you get to lead with that soft and beautiful energy and approach somebody.

Speaker 2:

So we're always responsible for the energy that we bring into the room. You've probably heard me say you know you draw the circle outside of your feet and everything inside that circle. You get to be responsible for everything outside of the circle you can't be responsible for. So you cannot be responsible for how somebody else receives your energy, but you can be responsible for the energy and the intention that you bring into the room. So you know, knowing all these pieces that were on my wall, it's my responsibility to not let those things to not lead with the energy that was in that wall.

Speaker 2:

And to be honest, I don't even remember all the things that were in that wall. I I should dig out the piece of paper. But there were a lot of things, including, like you know, beliefs I had about money I do remember that yeah, anger control, there were all these different things. So I don't want to bring those into a room with me. I want to be able to. You know, my goal is always when I'm interacting with someone I want them to feel comfortable, I want them to feel safe. I want them to feel yeah, I want them to feel safe that they can open up, which is often what happens with me. You know, it's not uncommon for people to get into a conversation with me and end up in tears, and I love that. I love that my energy creates a safe space, that people trust that they can be vulnerable with me and that they'll be held in that. That's really important to me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. One final question about your work as host of the Full Frontal Living podcast. Tell me, tell me, why Full Frontal Living? Because when I first heard the title I was like, oh wow, let me take a step back. It sounds very yeah at the full that's a bold title.

Speaker 2:

Yes, the reason that I call it Full Frontal Living is because, as you start to do this work around knowing yourself better and stripping down all these behaviors that you're getting into from perfectionism, control, allowing yourself to feel your emotions right, allowing yourself to be with the insecurities, with the parts of you that don't feel good enough, you can feel very, very fragile. There's a reason why we get into coping mechanisms. There's a reason why people over drink to doom scroll, get into drugs, get into pleasing, like all of these behaviors. There's a reason why we do it right we're trying to protect ourselves and as we strip away these layers and we take off these masks of who we thought we were, it can feel like you are standing naked in a snowstorm in front of thousands of people. So that's why it's called full frontal living, because it really is the courage range that is available to us as humans, and it's not easy. That's why not everybody does this work.

Speaker 1:

What is the best place for people to find out more about your work?

Speaker 2:

That is a great question. Well, they can subscribe to the Full Frontal Living podcast. We actually haven't put out any new episodes for a while. We've been repurposing in the name of not being perfect. It took a couple months off and we've got like 300 plus episodes. I'm like there's got to be some good, good stuff in there. So listening to the podcast is great. I hang out mostly on Instagram. I really love doing Instagram stories so I quite often put out Instagram stories so they can find me at Lisa Carpenter Inc or just over on my website at lisacarpenterca. We've got lots of different options and opportunities, including a private podcast that people can subscribe to, and we got some cool stuff coming coming down the pipe.

Speaker 1:

Exciting. What is one final piece of advice or insight that you want to share with our introverts and our quiet achievers and our highly sensitive people?

Speaker 2:

Be true to who you are, but don't allow the labels that you're telling yourself about yourself become stories that prohibit you from creating. The labels that you're telling yourself about yourself become stories that prohibit you from creating the life that you want, Because I believe that a lot of introverts and quiet people use that as their shield as to why they can't achieve great things in this world. And you know, I am not an extrovert and I've achieved great things in this world. You know I am not an extrovert and I've achieved great things in this world. You just have to embrace who you are and have the courage to challenge yourself to be more than you think of what you're capable of being. Hopefully that makes sense. It's be who you are and always challenge the parts of your identity that you are attached to, because they can often become limiting factors. I love that yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, even as an athlete this past year and then we can wrap up I decided to take this year to travel the world because, you know, a variety of things happened in my life and that required me to release the attachment to being an athlete. So I'm always going to be an athlete, but it had to look very different this year and I could not have had the year that I had if I had stayed attached to that identity. So it's a part of me, right, but we always have to be challenging the things that we're attached to so that they don't limit us.

Speaker 1:

You said something there about recognizing the labels but not letting the labels become your identity. So your identity is always something bigger than words can articulate.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, like being an athlete had become such a big part of me. I didn't know who I was if I wasn't an athlete. And there are so many more interesting things about me than just being an athlete, right, but the more I attach to that, the more energy I pour into that, the more I limit myself from exploring. Well, what if I'm also an explorer? What if I'm also an adventurer? What if I'm also a live on the edger? What does it feel like to not exercise or go to the gym and lift weights for a month?

Speaker 2:

Right, if I had been really attached to that identity, I would have been having anxiety attacks that I couldn't train. But because I was just like, we're just going to put this down for a while, we're going to try on this different thing over here, it really opened me up to a lot of things. So, you know, am I back at home now and back kind of in that athlete mindset again? Yes, but even now I'm now refining it and tweaking it, because the how I want to identify as an athlete now looks very different than it did in 2020. And that's really cool too. So just a reminder that everything, everything is always up for change and transformation. Nothing is permanent unless you fight really hard to stay attached to it.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful and, on that very light and liberating note, thank you very much, lisa Carpenter, for joining us today on the Quiet Warrior podcast. Make sure you check out Lisa's work at her website as well as at her podcast. All the links will be in the show notes and if you've enjoyed this episode, make sure you like and subscribe as well and stay tuned for the next episode. I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform. Together, we can help more introverts thrive. To receive more uplifting content like this, connect with me on Instagram at Serena Lo Quiet Warrior Coach. Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.