128. Quiet Ambition: How to Get Promoted Without Self-Promotion (with Patrick Kamba)

In this thoughtful and deeply aligned conversation, Serena sits down with Patrick Kamba—executive leader, global people manager, and author of Quiet Ambition.

Together, they explore what ambition looks like when it’s driven from the inside rather than performed for external validation. Patrick shares how introverts and quiet achievers can build influence, earn promotions, and lead powerfully—without hustling, self-promotion, or abandoning who they are.

This episode is a grounded, practical, and reassuring listen for anyone who wants to be visible and respected at work while staying authentic, calm, and values-led.

Key Takeaways:

• What ambition really means—and why it must come from inner fire, not external pressure
• The difference between authenticity and performative vulnerability
• How leaders can create psychological safety so people feel free to contribute and grow
• Why “challenging your boss” (and even ignoring them at times!) can be a healthy leadership practice
• How to get promoted through relationships, contribution, and strategic visibility
• What quiet visibility looks like in meetings—summarising, re-framing, inviting others in
• Why success isn’t worth it if you’re alone at the top
• Patrick’s personal commitment to women’s empowerment and inclusive leadership
• Integrating introverted and extroverted strengths instead of choosing one identity
• Why daring, trying, and having fun matter more than getting everything “right”
  
  

Resources & Links:

• Quiet Ambition by Patrick Kamba – explore how to lead and grow without being loud
• Learn more about Patrick’s work and leadership philosophy: https://www.patrickkamba.com/
• Connect with Patrick Kamba on LinkedIn

Work with Serena:

If you want to be visible, valued, and promotion-ready without performing extroversion, explore Serena’s 1:1 coaching and online courses at serenalow.com.au.

Spread the Word:

Share this episode with a fellow quiet achiever, and join us next time on The Quiet Warrior Podcast.

This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Transcript

Welcome And Quiet Ambition Promise

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to another episode of the Quiet Warrior Podcast. Our guest today is an executive leader, speaker, and author with a background in engineering and global leadership in the pharmaceutical industry. He helps professionals build influence, respect, and fulfillment in their careers without being too loud. His mission is simple: to prove that ambition doesn't need to be loud to be powerful. Welcome Patrick Kamba to the Quiet Warrior Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Serena.

Patrick’s Path From Engineer To Leader

SPEAKER_00 0:36

You're very welcome. So, Patrick, the first question I always ask my guests is: could you share something about your professional journey and what led you to what you now do?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yes, uh, I will do it with uh with pleasure. So I started my career as an engineer in the steel industry, working on processes and reliability of um tin plating uh you know in a plant. Then I evolved and became a consultant, where I started to feel more and more that I was passionate by people management in general, human resource, career management, coaching, and leading teams. That's why I evolved to be a project manager at GSK and even followed the training to become a job plus coach, meaning being a coach at work after my day-to-day activities. And this is really where I became my true passion, probably influenced by my father, who was an MD, and my mother a nurse, about you know, listening to people, caring, and in a way make them grow. That was the purpose. So today I'm working in at PPD, a clinical research organization. I've been dealing with teams all around the world, men and women, very young, and let's say very major people. And at the end, it's always the same story. It's about ambition, how to move forward. But I have seen that some people don't always know what it means, how to be ambitious without being hustling, without being competitive. And that is where I'm finding areas where I can contribute to people development in general.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Tell me, what is your definition of ambition? What does it mean to be ambitious?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

So, ambition to me is very simple as a definition. I like to say it is the inner fire that is pushing us forward. Very simple. Everybody can relate to it. And where I really want to insist is it's inner fire. So it's not external, it should not come from your parents, family, brothers, sisters, etc. It's about you. And sometimes people feel that they have a fire that is pushing them forward, but coming from outside, and that might be sometimes a challenge for them.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

That is a good point. When I think of ambitious people, usually I think of people who are very visible, very high profile. They are in the media a lot, people know them, know their name, their familiar faces, and we almost put them on a pedestal. And it sounds just also like what you're saying is when somebody is driven from the inside, the motivation is not about performance. What is it then if it's not about performing for someone else's approval?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

It can be self-fulfillment, uh, self-realization. It's about being aligned with who you are, what you want, what you need. At the end, it's being authentic. Because if you indeed mention people who are externally driven, uh high profile, very visible, they will look for external validation. They will look for the like, they will look for the impression of their posts, and etc. etc. That's that's the challenge. And they may lose themselves in the sense that it might be overexhausting, you know, always looking for attention, validation. You want your posts, videos, etc., to be viral. You want to be on the pedestal, as you are saying, while being in a way more discreet, I'm not saying invisible, okay? Being quiet, again, I'm not saying loud or muted in a way, is just finding the right balance, but being authentic with yourself and really who you are and not playing your role, ideally.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

The word authentic is used a lot nowadays. And I wonder if we have the same understanding of what that means. What does authenticity mean to you, Patrick?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

To me, being authentic is just being myself. Because there are some people who will try to show you that they are vulnerable while they are not. Okay. And to me, being authentic is being able to explain in front of everybody that maybe you screwed up, you made a mistake, you were wrong, and all of this, but with basic examples, not examples where you know you may feel that it has been built or fabricated, you know, for the presentation, for the meeting, and and and all of those events, is being able to just say, I am that kind and I don't care. And I accept it.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Right. So there is that element of I don't care, and it's not meant in a disrespectful way. It's more that you are not attached to whether the other person is going to like you more for that disclosure. You're saying it's okay with me how however you respond, however you choose to respond, but this is the truth. This is the thing that I'm telling you right now. This is real, this is what's happening for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yes. At the end of the day, it's about being free. I like to say be free. Because at the moment you are free, of course, you are authentic and you can try whatever. Because in a way, you cannot fail because it's just extra, it's just bonus compared to you need to get to this position, you need to present this, you need to show good results. You need, you need, you need, you need, you need, but then where are you? That's the question.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

That word is very powerful. The need, the need leads to desperation. When we're coming from that place of I have to perform because otherwise I won't be considered good enough, otherwise, I won't be accepted, otherwise I won't belong, or I won't fit in, I won't get the promotion. And underneath all of that, I think there is a deeper need that we are looking for for something to fill, for for something to help us feel more fulfilled. And I think when we attach the need to something like our career progression, it becomes externalized, it becomes all about performance and metrics. But you are saying that authenticity means freedom. It means I have the freedom to show up as myself. And I'm proud of myself, I love myself, this is who I am, and I'm not afraid to show you who I am.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yes, exactly. Um, because again, I can imagine that for some people, if they don't show up at a certain moment, of course, their career might be impacted, they may not be promoted. But at the end, it's about the environment where you are evolving and operating in. If this environment is not, you know, embracing you, accepting you, or even uplifting you, that then you may not be at the right place. Because as a leader, part of my job is to be sure I am creating a safe environment where people can perform at their best. So I'm expected to welcome introvert, extroverts, men, women, people in Australia, people in Europe, people in Africa, Latin America, and etc. It's about being diverse and I would say extract all the strength, competencies of everybody so that the project can move forward. That's the purpose. So, on the opposite, if people don't feel that they can be themselves, there's a problem. They may not be in the right environment. That's one. Of course, they may not use the right way to express and show their competencies. Of course, they may have a reason or maybe part of the root cause, but it might be also the environment. That's why they have to step back and find their way and go step by step.

Leading With Safety And Challenge

SPEAKER_00 9:02

What you said about the environment is so important for leaders. So, on a practical level, how do you make the environment safe for your people?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

So I have my own way, let's say, and again, being being authentic. I regularly ask uh my people to challenge me. I really say, don't hesitate to challenge me because I may be missing an element here, or I may be wrong here. So please challenge me and really insist. And the funniest part, and again, being authentic, I sometimes say to some of my people, from time to time, don't hesitate to ignore me. And they are sometimes a bit shocked. Because that's the purpose. If they feel that from time to time they just need to ignore, don't pay too much attention, that gives them the freedom that maybe they should pursue their own idea and not always listen to what I would say. And I even say if you mistake, I'm fine. It means that you are learning also. If you are stepping on my toes, it's a good news. It means also that you are learning and you are that you are going beyond your day-to-day. So that's fine. Go ahead. That's one basic way to create this safe environment.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

That's quite incredible. It sounds to me like you're giving them a lot of leeway to feel empowered and to have that, to exercise their own agency. Because I think what happens a lot of times is with introverted employees, they try so hard to take up less space because they are afraid of offending people, they're afraid of upsetting people, and they don't want to have those difficult confrontations or difficult conversations. So they play it safe and they try to stick within their role. But you as a leader, you are saying, challenge me, ignore me, and it's okay to step on my toes sometimes. So you're giving them a lot of freedom.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yes, and and of course, I understand that it might be scary for some of them. Like uh, it's the first time I hear this. What uh if is he real and honest? Because remember about those vulnerabilities. Some people pretend they are vulnerable. Well, actually, they are not, and they are just showing a very good face in front of everybody. So, what is important here is to be consistent and regularly bring these messages. And from time to time, indeed, some people are saying, Can I challenge you? And uh sometimes I will say no. Sometimes I say no because no, I mean, the decision has been taken. I agree you would like to do something else, and say no, exceptionally, you can't. But it is exceptional. Generally, they can. And I will still take the five, ten, fifteen minutes, whatever, to be challenged, listen to the point of view, and then explain my decision, what are the criteria, and also help them be clear on why they are challenging me. Because that's also interesting when you hear people challenging you, is what is behind. Because being a coach and I like to say being a good listener, I sometimes hear what is behind, and the interesting part is what is behind, what is it touching in them. And then we can discuss, and at the end, we are growing together because it's me doing this exercise is to practice, of course, but it's learning further how this person is thinking, behaving, what will help me to be a better contributor to her career in the future. That's the point. I'm not doing this exercise for the sake of doing this exercise, but rather to understand so that maybe next time I will approach this person differently, so that for this person it might be more palatable in the future. That's also the part.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

So, what you're saying is both you as a leader and your team member are learning at the same time. You are learning what they where their boundaries are, where the line in the sand is, where what kind of situation makes them uncomfortable. And you're noticing and you're picking up all these data points for future reference so that you can lead them better.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yes, because ultimately my goal is to sit with them and think about their next step in their career. That's why the more I know them, the better I will be to help them thinking about their next step. And I usually uh know what are the next steps for my people. But I need at first to build relationships based on trust and challenges from time to time, but really free exchanges that will help me build my own understanding and then propose okay, did you think about this role? I think you could do this. What's your opinion? And then we keep on building the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So your relationship building style is based on dialogue.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yes, yes, dialogue, and I like to say a lot of listening. It's listen, listen, listen. I sometimes, of course, provoke them because I I mean I'm used to it, so I play a bit with them, of course, to make them react, because I may understand what is behind, and then I I push this button on purpose, but with a smile, of course, because it carrier management needs to be relaxed, by the way. By the way. So we are laughing together because they understand that I know them, you know, and that's how we can build and we can share, and then they can say, okay, I am interested in this position, but am I already, I'm not sure? What's your opinion? And then we build, we build, we build. That's the philosophy. But what is really behind is that people did the same with me. That is as simple as that. That's why I'm doing it. I'm a pure product of the others. I like to say it this way, and that's why now I am giving back and helping others. Because that's a kind of chain of, let's say, in a way, a chain of love at the end. That's what it is. Because when people decide to help you contribute to your development, I mean, that is love. What else would it be?

Strategic Visibility And Calm Promotion

SPEAKER_00 15:17

That's beautifully expressed. It's a chain of love, it's a circle of life. It's you start by listening and then you go on to build, and in building, you give back, and that becomes a full circle, and that empowers the person to go on and create ripple effects for other people around them. That's beautiful. Let's talk about getting promoted without self-promotion. That sounds like a like an oxymoron to me. Please, please explain that.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yes, that that may sound a counterintuitive. I mean, it's like my book, Quiet Ambition. How can you be ambitious but quiet? How can you be promoted but in a way still being quiet? So it's a connection of uh, I mean, it's a connection with um building relationships. Because several years ago I was project manager, I was so much uh in the performance, achievement, I wanted to be promoted, I was ticking all the boxes, and I found unfair that I was not promoted at the speed I wanted and thought I was deserving, because at the end it's about deserving the promotion. And I started to see some people around me chasing human resources, lobbying, asking why they were not promoted, and I was not fully aligned with this behavior. So I had really to uh step down and calm down also and say, okay, what's going on here? Uh beyond the ego, what do I really want about this promotion? And I have decided to still go to human resources, but to have conversation, to discuss and listen and understand what's going on, and not justification on why I was not promoted. And surprisingly, because I was surprised, um, people were really open, they explained to me what are the processes, the constraints, and all of this. And finally, I was promoted. And my takeaway was that from time to time, if you are just asking calmly to people, they will reply to you, they will not be on the defense. And of course, I did not know at that moment that it was quite ambition, of course. But it was the first example, and a few years later, I became a director in project management without even applying. I did not apply. Somebody came, I mean, my my boss, and said, Patrick, uh, I think uh you would be a good fit for this position.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

What happened is that a few years before I was working with her. We were colleagues. And indeed, I was supporting her, she was supporting me, we were discussing project management um certification and other things. We had a very good relationship from a professional perspective, and actually it came into fruition, but I would have never thought it would come into fruition like this. But that's life, and then it was the second lesson. You are working well with people, you never know who will be your boss tomorrow. That's the story. And then I started, and then today I'm leaving in several hundred people in my in my uh at PPD. And again, a lot of things happened to me while I never asked, actually. Because I was doing my job, I was authentic, I was contributing to the success of the others, I was collaborative, I showed a growth mindset, and that helped me to grow and to be where I am today. On the opposite, I will not pretend that I was never visible. That's fake, that would be wrong. I'm just saying that from time to time I am visible, but when it's needed. So I'm not talking during the one-hour meeting, I'm talking a few moments during this meeting. There are a few meetings during the week that are really important, and I have to be there, and I prepare what I will do and say, but also again in a collaborative way. I can be in the meeting, but also pass the microphone to my neighbor, to another function, and etc. That is still being visible, you know, rephrasing at the end, uh, being a volunteer to take some actions, send the reports, all of this is still being visible, but not hopefully I was in the room to make this meeting moving forward. Thanks to me, blah, blah, blah. No, that is showing off. But saying, I can help at the end, let me rephrase, let me summarize, let me invite this additional person because she can bring value to the conversation, that is still delivering, performing, but in a more collaborative and I would say quiet way.

Why Success Feels Empty Alone

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I love this. I love this strategic visibility that you just elaborated on. These are all very practical, very, you know, real day-to-day decisions and choices that we can make. And they are all aligned with how the quiet achiever functions because they don't like being in the limelight, but they also recognize that it's important for them to speak up and for their voice to be heard. So the way you've explained it, the way you've demonstrated it, shows that you can be quiet, but you can still contribute. And your contribution can still be memorable. It doesn't always have to be loud. And it doesn't have to be all about you because that puts enormous pressure on the quiet achiever. They don't want to be this the only person standing in the limelight. They are actually quite happy to share the limelight. So when you are collaborative, you invite other people into the space, you recognize someone else's strengths and contributions, that also demonstrates your own ability to work with others and to mentor others. So that too is a kind of visibility. So thank you for expanding on that. I remember when we were talking before, you mentioned the importance of you said that success is great, but it's not worth it if you are alone.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yes. Yes, so that is a a lesson that um we received when I was starting my MBA, which brought that 20 years ago. Um, before the the enrollment started, we received a message uh from some of the professors who said, you know, when you are making an MBA, you're part of the very low percentage in the world, which is a great um diploma, let's say. But at the end of the day, if you are graduated and you are alone, that's not worth it. So you have to engage with your family and your close friends. To explain that during one year and a half or two years, you will be less available. Because this is the best way for them to understand what is happening, to support you, and then to celebrate when you are done with your studies. So I kept this for years and years. And again, success at the end, even if in a way it's your success, you would like to be able to share with some of your people, some of your team in general. So yes, it's important. Otherwise, it's over exhaustion. And what's the purpose of being at the at the summit at the highest point if at the end you are alone and you cannot share with this?

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Yes, there is that phrase, it's lonely at the top.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yes. Yes.

Why Women’s Empowerment Changes Work

SPEAKER_00 22:45

But when we do it in community and when we have others who are meaningful, who have a meaningful presence in our lives, and we can share it with them because they understand, it's almost like we are inviting them to be part of the journey. So they can support you. And then during that period, you are less available and they understand why they don't feel they're being excluded or neglected. And so you are maintaining those relationships at a different level, but you haven't ignored those relationships completely. You are acknowledging that they are still important people to you. And you want to be present for them when you have the availability. So that when you come back out of that busy phase, you can then turn your resources, turn your presence, your time, your energy towards nourishing and building up those relationships again. And I think that's so important for partners, for parents, for anybody with a who's building, you know, busily building their business, their career, whatever it is we are doing in our lives. I think it's important to communicate with our loved ones and with the people that matter to us, what exactly we are doing, why we're doing it, and what does it mean for them. So thank you for adding that. You're welcome. We also talked about, I remember, about women's empowerment and why you're so passionate about it. And I know you have a personal story to share there.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Yes, so my passion for woman empowerment is coming from the fact that uh my mother decided to uh become a nurse while she was 40 years old. And she was a mother of four children, including me, and I was the youngest. So it was really tough because it was uh, let's say, end of the 80s. So it was tough for her because I mean going back to school and of course being with students who can be uh her children, that was already something. And then I have also three daughters, so I'm very sensitive on the world they are evolving in. And I'm really passionate by uh I mean contributing to the development of woman, uh woman's career. I regularly attend uh congresses where I can contribute. And women and men have different ways to manage uh their career, to approach ambition. And so here I know I can contribute and bring something because at the end, having three daughters, you see also what's happening at home.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yes. And to you, what would a world look like if women are empowered?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Uh well, um it's almost, I think, proven um statistically, uh, I mean, with science, that when countries are run by women, they are in a better shape. It's well known. That's my not even my personal opinion, but it has been demonstrated. But beyond that, uh we would be in a more collaborative environment, less competitive competitive. Projects might sometimes run smoother, and of course, women bring a different perspective to projects, to career, and and etc. So I would like to have, of course, more interaction and see more women going at the top because it's bringing a new dynamic in the way business is run. So it should be my ideal situation. So at my level, how I am contributing is make women leaders grow, being empowered, remove some obstacles from their path, and see them growing. And that's really what I like the most.

Blending Introvert And Extrovert Strengths

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Beautiful. Where do you see yourself on the introverted extrovert spectrum, Patrick?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

That's a tough question, actually. I I would say that when I was younger, I was much more introvert, meaning that I was rather reloading my batteries, being, let's say, alone or isolated, but isolated might be negative. When I say isolated, is walking close to the to the river or just reading my book somewhere. And with time, I started to be speaking more in public, hanging out more with friends. And at the end, I would say I'm between uh introvert and extrovert, or I would rather say I'm integrating my introvert and extrovert competences, depending on what I need to do. I may be a bit more extrovert, and for other parts, I might be more introvert. I mean, I'm taking the bright side of um of both. I heard and I almost I am sure that introverts tend, for example, to prepare much more for public speaking, intervention during meetings, and etc. And that is exactly what I am doing. I'm preparing, learning, reading, and on the opposite, I'm more using extrovert side when I'm giving speeches in public, I'm giving trainings, so I do both.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

And where does that energy come from? For you to be able to do the public speaking and the things that take up energy in that way. Where does this come from?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

I try to have fun. That's uh I would say my own secret. Just enjoy and have fun. Uh, first, because I like to say that career will be long. So even if something goes wrong today, don't worry, you still have so many years to work. You can always delete or erase what happened. That's basic. But it's also just try so that you don't have any regrets. You don't think that you may have done X, Y, Z and you did not do it just because you were afraid. That doesn't mean that it is easy and simple every day. What my main challenge when I do podcast, of course, is English, because I'm French-speaking native. I keep on learning English, but it's always a kind of doubt when I start to speak English. Will people understand? Will it make sense? Will I have all the words that are needed or will not be stuck somewhere because I cannot find my words? That's my reality. But I'm fighting against it as I can, and I try every day.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Thank you for sharing that so vulnerably. I think that kind of transparency is very helpful to other people for whom English is not their native language. And I think it's important to acknowledge that not everybody speaks English, not everybody comes from a country where English is the first language. And so if we can speak more than one language, actually that is an asset. And your accent is your superpower.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Thank you.

Dare, Have Fun, Keep Growing

SPEAKER_00 29:56

So, what's one thing you want our introverted listeners to take away from our conversation today? What would you like them to remember?

SPEAKER_01 30:05

I would like them to remember that they should dare. There's no risk, they they can dare, they should dare, because at least they tried. And at the end of the day, they will not regret for not having tried. They will try, and the best is maybe just surprise yourselves.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Surprise yourself and dare and have fun.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Wise words indeed. Thank you so much, Patrick Camber, for sharing your wisdom and your energy with us today.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Thank you, Silena.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

So, listeners, make sure you check out Patrick's book, Quiet Ambition, at the link in the show notes so you can put thoughtful ambition into action and continue your learning journey beyond this episode. And if you're ready to lead without having to perform extroversion, the Visible Introvert Coaching Program is your next step to build visibility that honors your energy and your values instead of depleting it. Check out the show notes for all the details. See you on the next episode. I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform. Together we can help more introverts thrive. To receive more uplifting content like this, connect with me on Instagram at Serenaloo Quiet Warrior Coach. Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.